index
teaching/
child neglect
L. L. : They didn't put him in jail, or...?
M. C. : You know, that's the trouble with these things, and, and who knows, of course, uh, I'm
sure that a great deal of this went on, uh, in other days, earlier, and people paid no
attention to it. It's only in recent years that they've done a great deal about this. But
that's, that's just one occasion.
418 And another occasion was about, uh, a boy I had in the sixth grade who would be 11
or 12. And, uh, uh, his mother had been a Seattle society woman, girl. And she had
married his father who was a, a, a, mu, musician in, uh, one of the orch, not an orchestra,
he has in, uh, something better than that. But it had to do with music. And, uh, evidently,
there had been disharmony in the home, and, uh, uh, this, the 2 children, he had a younger
sister whom I also had in the sixth grade, but she was younger than he. And, uh, the little
girl was eh, eh, uh, nice to work with. But both children were being raised by their
grandfa, mother. And that, I hear so much about that now-a-days. 30% of the children are
in a one-parent home, and of that number, maybe 25% are living with their grandparents. I
hear that in statistics, not that's the kind of thing I listen too, see. I could learn something
more that would be beneficial, more beneficial. But I do listen to those because I feel sorry
for the children. But this boy, actually, uh, I don't like to ku, speak about physical
appearances, but his physical appearance, you just knew he was mad at the world. He had
no mother, he had no father. See, the mother didn't want anything to do with them
because that meant work. But the poor grandmother, she labored, well, she finally sent him
to vis, to, to be with an uncle in, on a farm in Montana. And the last I heard, he had came
come back to West Seattle, and one of the teachers saw him on the street. And she called
me on the telephone and said, told me that she had seen him. And she said and he looked
just as bad as he always did. He was so disgmntled. He carried not a chip on one
shoulder, but a chip on both shoulders and. It was, it's sad when you see a life that could
be saved.
end Tape 6. side B
Tape?
sideA
teaching/
mentally ill
teaching
008 M. C. : [Margaret is telling about another one of her students]
...another boy in the sixth grade, and he had had, uh, difficulty, uh, family difficulty,
and he ended up at, uh, oh what was the name of the psychological school they sent then
to? I should know what it is, anyway. And when he was there, he wrote me time and time
again, and he said he prayed for me each night. He said that in the letter. I kept the letter
for years. I don't know if I still have it or not; I doubt it.
L. L. : How come he prayed foryon7
M. C. : Long after he was in and out of this school that was de, for mentally disturbed children, and
uh, uh I kept if for a long, long time, the letter because I was so emotionally, uh, interested
in what he had said because he always spoke so pleasantly of me. And I remember the
psychiatrist that, uh, I, I was asked to stay after school one night, and this psychiatrist was
coming. The principle was to be there and his, I don't know if his parents were there that
night or not, but anyway, uh. And the psychiatrist that examined him, uh, told me later that
he kept his eye on me to see if there was any rejection of the boy when I spoke with him.
See, you never know who's looking at you, do you?
025 L. L. : And what was it like to start teaching again in 1942 after being with your family for so
long?
M. C. : ...then I stayed, where did I start in?
L. L. : No, what was it like to go back to teaching?
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index
M. C. : As if I'd never been out.
L. L. : Did you...
M. C. : I could do that even today. I could go into a classroom, any kind of classroom, and feel at
home.
L. L. : How did your family handle you working again?
retiring 032 M. C. : Oh, they didn't, th, that was all right with them because, uh, like my son always said even
now when he introduces me at some meeting of some sort, and he introduces me, he says,
"And she's still teaching." [laugh]
son/marriage 035 L. L. : It's true. Um, I'd like to ask you about your son's marriage again, ...your son's marriage?
M. C. ; My son is married?
L. L. : Yeah what year did he get married?
M. C. : Oh, dear, I think they've been married 42 years, now figure that out. I think that, but I'm
not sure. He can tell you all that.
L. L. : um-huh
M. C. : He'll tell you all, anything you want to know.
L. L. : What was it like when he told you he was getting married?
son/love042 M. C. : Well, we had a veiy, very close relationship. I remember he came home one afternoon, and
he said, he sat down in a chair in the corner like that chair is, and he says, "How do you
know when you're in love?" And that started me, it didn't startle me, but it started me
thinking he's getting pretty close to thinking about it. Now you see, he had the
interruption of a year off because he has a junior, and he knew Marilyn before he left.
L. L. : Were they dating then?
war/inlaws 046 M. C. : Oh, yes, they were. Because, while they were gone, uh, I took her to see a film on the
Korean War and met her. And, uh, I guess I'd met her before too, yes, I know I had. And,
she was an only child. And uh, anyway, but Don and I have always been, we could discuss
anything, we still can discuss anything. And, we do, [laugh] both of us. Because open
relationships mean a great deal, that's the only way you can get, really get along anyway is
through an open relationship. I was very fond of her; she was an only child, and her
mother and father were graduates of the university too. And, uh, it, it was very
harmonious.
And then we all went out together when we herd he was coming home at a certain
time, and we were at the airport to meet him when he came home. And I know that
Marilyn's father said to me, "Margaret, why don't you go downstairs and meet him when
he first gets off the plane by yourself." Well, that was, you weren't allowed to do that, but
he went to somebody and made arrangements so I could go down and meet Don when he
came back.
So, and Don brought back, he came via, uh, Jap, uh, China and Japan. And I don't
know, but in one of them, I guess it was in China, he bought, he brought everybody a gift,
and what he brought me was this Cloisenay set. And I'll show it you. I, I still have it,
although I did give it once to my granddaughter, but it's, yes, if you come down here
because I showed it to somebody, and I got my first mark on my desk [there is a scratch on
the front of the cabinet in which the piece of art is contained], and this desk is real old.
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And it, it came down here. Now this, this is, he brought, there's a round plate, and he, and
they each have their own, this is uh, a, oh, let's see, the pattern of that is, uh, oh dear...
L.L.: It's beautiful.
art 074 M. C. : I know. There's a round plate and two of these [small vases]. Now today, this is worth, I
suppose, do you n, n, do you know art? Now each of these little grains are put in here by
hand. All these prunace, this is a prunace pattern, prunace. And, uh, and they don't do this
very much anymore over there in the Orient because the young people don't like, like to do
artwork that is so confining as this is, and then get so little for it. They have bigger ideas.
And I don't blame them. But anyway, the plate is over in there [another cabinet across the
room], over in the other side. But, and he brought, he brought that set for me, and he
brought everybody something nice.
L. L. : Did you, um. did you get along with Marilyn then?
M. C. : Oh yes, we've got, always gotten along, but I've always gotten along with everybody. I
don't, I, maybe I have enemies I don't know anything about, but if I have, I don't know it.
Now this is another one, this, this, is another one, and the plate is back there. But I want
to tell you. if you were, are, interested, this is interesting.
L. L. : Oh, I can see it from here.
art/death 100 M. C. : But I want to show you something else. When I pass away, I have my crypt already. And
this is oriental art, and that's going to be for my ashes [Margaret takes out 2 small oriental
vases with lids taped to them]. And I'll tell you, now my son ha, has a, a sense of humor,
This is, I don't know if I told you about that or not, but there's one [ash container] for me
and one for my daughter, and I have the crypt all bought and paid for. But, and I think
that's interesting.
L. L. : Why did you decide to do that?
M. C. : Why did I do it?
L. L. : Because I was thinking in preparation for everything I could do to make it easier for
everybody else because I know I've been [laugh]. I've done enough service, you know,
now, when anyone passes away, nowadays, it is because, the custom to, um, socialize after
the ceremony. Almost every church, you know, has, uh, a tea hour or, or refreshments of
some sort, and I'm not gonna have any because I've been [laugh], I've asked, been asked
for cookies or to make little dainty sandwiches and all that, and my friends now are all
getting old to do it, and all my friends are going anyway. I'm kind of left in the, hanging on
the chain by myself. But anyway, it's interesting, and I, I, uh, went, I knew what I wanted
to have done. I, I sent my, my body to the university hospital, I have been working with
them off and on for years, and, uh, when it, uh, and then I went out by myself to look at
crypts when I was, uh, driving. And, uh, I liked Eccacia, out here in the North End. And,
uh, uh, they have columns and beautiful stained-glass windows in it, and nice little niches. I
wanted one that was large enough for mys, my daughter and myself, uh, and so I bought
one, and, uh,I looked around to see, wh, what, uh, containers they were using. And,uh,I
had bought a couple from f, family members. And I liked the looks of this one in the little
crypts, with the little, you hiow, the glass and all. And it's right near a, the window where
th, the sun shines in, a stained-glass window that's beautiful. And I thought, "How pretty
these little ones were." And, and so I mentioned it to my son.
And the next thing I knew, uh, about 2 years ago, uh, they were entertaining for me
and my birthday out at Lake Sawyer, out at this place you will see if they take you out
there. And, uh, at the table, they had this great, big birthday cake for another friend that,
who had her birthday on the same day as mine. And, when this cake was served, uh, Don
came out with 2 big packages, about like that. And he said, uh, "Mother, here's your
birthday gift. No," he said, "it's not your birthday gift, it's your going away gift." I, and of
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course I, caught in right away, and I started to laugh. And,uh, and, and my friend said,
"Going away?" I said, "Yes, when I'm on my way to Heaven." I said, "I'll meet you there,
someday." And, uh, I opened it up, and here were these two [ash containers], and they had
gone, he's great for antiques, you'll see that when you get out there.
property 188 Take a look at everything, and then you can ask me the questions if you have to, and
I'll tell you as much as I know. But they'll ask, answer you. But anyway, it's all
interesting because everything means something that they have out there. They have
everything from their own grand piano out there in the country, uh, uh, but anyway, it was,
it's worth going out to see. But, anyway, so that's the way I'm gong away. And they
better keep their promise [laugh].
1960's 192 L . L. : I'd like to ask you more about the 1960's around that, that era.
M.C.: I didn't...
L. L. : I'd like to ask you more about the 1960's.
M.C. : Oh,uh,uhgood!
L. L. : [laugh] Is that when, um, is that when the time of your divorce, was that in the 1960's?
M. C. : Yes, 1960.
divorce 165 L. L. : Could you tell me, would you tell me about the events that proceeded your divorce?
friends
children/inlaws 172
M. C. : ...that proceeded that? I'll me glad to.
168 Now that, you see, is where my friends fall by the wastp-side. They don't want to
discuss such things. But that to me is, is nice. I've al, I haw always had a very close
relationship with my husband and his family. Now, but there were many things that
actually I didn't know how deeply they troubled him.
Now, he wanted children, and I wanted children. But when, when the children came,
he really didn't know how to, to be a father. Uh, and because his mother and father had
separated, and she had taken the 2 little children, see they were, uh, they came from Rhode
Island. And she had taken the 2 children, he and his little sister, he was 5 and his sister was
3. And they came out to Washington, and he never saw his father again. And I did not
know how, how that really affected him. But I found out. You really don't know anyone
until you have a real close relationship with them.
handicap 186 That's why it's so important that you know they well. Now, I had known him for a
long time. We'd been engaged for 4 years. And, and, uh, uh, but now his, when Marilyn
was born handicapped, as she was, I made up my mind I would de everything that I
possible could to help her. Now her, his people, this had never happened to them before,
and, and, they were, well, his mother had married again which I didn't tell you, but the
step-father, his step-father was the most wonderful man. I knew all of them well in a little
town like Auburn at, uh, that time, Auburn was about 5 thousand or 7 thousand people,
and you know everybody in town. Uli, church-going and otherwise. And, the step-father
was a wonderful man. And I knew his sister and his, the step-father's family very well.
And, uh, uh he couldn't have had a better step father. But he, he died of cancer, he was
sick a long time, and I helped while he was ill, I helped, helped the family through that
time.
But when I had a child that was born handicapped, and they learned what the, uh,
prognosis was, they could not accept it. They never, uh, remembered her at holidays or
never remembered her at Christmas time, remember her birthday, or anything like that. It
was just a, uh, they never mentioned her. And of course, that just broke my heart. And,
and it did something to my son too because his relationship with his father wasn't very
good. It was, it wasn't like it should have been. I came from a warn family, a loving
family, and I thought they were also. But, you see, when tragedy struck, it made all the
difference in the world. And then he got to drinking, which was sad because previous to
that we had no liquor, uh, no one drank in the family. No, oh they might have taken a, a, a
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index
Seattle schools
religion 242
death/inlaws
conflict 289
G. Depression 294
poetry
husband
213
214
divorce 320
work 322
alcohol 326
wine or something like that once in a great while, but not on a situation. And,and,and the
breach just grew greater.
230 But you see my, uh, burden, uh, since I had all of it was very strong. And it was great
because, see at that time, there was nothing in the Seattle schools for her. They had, n, n,
no recreation even. You had everything. And, see the doctor's orders, now I went into the
physicians office and learned what was different about her body than it would be of a
normal child's. The bones are a light gray. They show up that in x-rays. And different
things that the doctor would have me do for her which they must have been right because
she's lived so long.
And, uh, and she's outgoing. And, uh, she loves life, and she's very, very, uh, of
Christian love for people. She has many things in her favor, but there is this constant care
that you have to give. And it very, when she was just, a, a, sev, uh, just weeks old, the
doctor would have me raise the window when the the sun shu, when the sun would shine in
and expose her body to the sun sh, rays. Now, if you have to hold a child, which you'd
have to do that, and follow his directions, that's a very time-giving element of love. And
it's not easy. But you show me a mother that does it, and she's a wonderful person. She
has to be, otherwise she couldn't do it. But it's so easy, you know, and it's, it's, a veiy
common occurrence, where there is any kind ofover-burden in a family, a man chooses to
walk out on it. Unless he is, uh, you know, a church, very church-oriented, very, uh,
loving in the nature of being, why, most of them can't take it, they don't take it. The, uh,
have another out. And, and since I have been by myself, it has just been wonderful; there's
hardly a day goes by but something nice happens to me. And I accept it. It, it's good.
And it, it has taught me a great deal because now I can, uh, uh, commiserate, I can, uh, uh,
feel at home with anyone that has grief or suffering. So, all these, even the things that at
the time you think are burdens against you or problems against you, they turn out to be
blessings. And I'm, I, I'm, I'm so content with my life, what has been, and what will be,
because, life is, is never, never meant to be an easy path. The people that expect it.
Now there's some, uh, uh, grace out of all of this when I stop to think that my
husband's sister and her husband, they never had any children, but they lived with us during
the Depression. We didn't have a big house either, but we made room for her. And, on
her deathbed, she asked for me. And she said, "I want you to know that, how wonderful
you're always been to me." And that, uh, just imagine how that made you feel. Now, uh,
the one thing they never did was to say that they were sorry. You see they, to confess was
difficult. They could, couldn't bring themselves to do that because even when she called
me in the extreme, in the extremity of her own life, she couldn't say, "Margaret, I'm sorry
that things have been as they are."
But, she did always tell me how much I had done for her. And what I had done for
her, I would have done for anyone. So, "Life is real, and life is earnest," isn't it? Now I'm
taking up your time.
L. L. : No, this is nice. What about, urn, did your husband stop spending so much time at home
when Marilyn was little?
M. C. : Yes, yes, that was evident.
L. L. : What would he do?
M. C. : I don't know. I really don't.
L. L. : Okay. What finally made you decide to get a divorce?
M. C. : Well, because I knew that it was easier for me when I had s, so much to care for to gone
alone than it was...
uh drinking cost money, I had bills to pay, but, you see, in the end, when I wanted to
go, when I had to go back to work, to, uh, it was my family who took Marilyn for about 2
years to help me get started back in the working force which I needed.
74
index #
L. L. : And what year was that about?
M. C. : I beg your pardon.
L. L. : What year was that? Was that like in '42?
M. C. : Oh, that was before '40, yes that was'42.
L.L.: '42
M. C. : '42, yes, that's correct. And it's a, it's uh, it worked out well, very well, it couldn't have
been better.
L. L. : Was it hard to be divorced though, in th, the 1960's?
1960's 340 M. C. : No, I don't think so. No. I made a break, and even though he would, you know, call and
want to go back, I knew there was no, we tried that once, and it didn't work. He went
back to drinking again. And, uh, and that was all right, but, uh, but he, uh, never really
adjusted, he never did. Because, uh, he would call me, but I wanted no, I didn't want to,
uh, to, uh,have to go through all that again. And, uh, and as far a Marilyn was concerned,
she hadn't seen him for over 30 years. You see, he had made no contact with her until, uh,
recently passed away. He tried to then, but after 30 years, and she tells everybody that, she
told 'em 25 years ago or more that her father died. Well, she thought he died, and I didn't
correct her. He hadn't come to see her, and so she thought he had died.
L. L. : Did you ever talk to him about how badly he treated Marilyn?
M. C. : No, well I did be, before, you know, but I didn't, uh, make anything of it. It wasn't any
use. I knew it wasn't any use with him, so.
daughter/ 364 L. L. : Did, was your daughter aware of the divorce?
divorce
M. C. : Yes, she's aware, she was aware of it in the very beginning.
L. L. : How wa, how did she deal with that?
M. C. : Well, she'd really didn't have much, feel, a, feel about it for the simple reason for the
simple reason that he wa, uh, when he was drinking, he was away from the home. And, uh,
he was away from the home. Well, it was just a natural separation.
dating 376 L. L. : After you were divorced, did you date anyone?
M. C. : No. But, uh, I had, uh, I, you can't call it dating, but it, uh, uh, I had had several
proposals, and one of the men called me, he was a school principal by now. And, uh, took
me out for dinner, but I didn't call that dating. And uh, and, uh, really, to tell you the truth,
I thought it was funny. I've never told anyone this, to anyone. But, he, he had made
money in real estate. And, and, um. money was the least thing I was thinking about with
anyone. But because of Marilyn, I never would have married anyway, because I had her to
take care of, and that was it. But, uh, I couldn't help but laugh because when he came to
see me, he had a nice enough looking car, now he was a widower, but they had had no
children.
And,uh,uh,he, uh, I couldn't help thinking that we was always, uh, when we went
together years ago when he was at the University, uh, he was a person who was always,
nicely dressed. He had tailor made suits, and that type of thing. Well, he had gotten away
from that a long time ago [laugh]. He was interested in a yacht or a boat, and, uh, I
wouldn't have been so, it's just as well I turned him down [laugh]. But it was interesting
because the night he came, uh, to take me out to dinner, I dressed as if I were going out to
dinner, but he had on a long raincoat, wasn't, I, I, I took one look at him when I saw him
75
index #
coming up the drive, and I thought to myself, "Boy, how's he's failed." [laugh]. And,
and...
L. L. : So you knew him at the University?
M. C. : ...but when he cam in and sat down, he took a good look at me and he said, "Peg, you're a
handsome woman." And I said, and I thought to myself, "Using the word handsome on a
woman wasn't very good to begin with, and he was a principal with a masters degree."
[laugh]. But it was funny.
L. L. : How come he called you Peg?
M. C. : Oh that's what, uh, they, in school, they'd often call me that. So,an, uh,
L. L. : You knew him at the University?
M. C. : No, I'd met him, I met him at Bellingham.
L. L. : So years before.
M. C. : And he was just out of the Navy.
L, L. : um-huh
M. C. : And, you see, at that time, just being out of the Navy, he had money to buy things with
that, that college kids couldn't. So, you had, uh, a real date. Well, oh dear. That's,uh,
I've never talked about my love life to anybody, [laugh].
L. L. : Did you have any desire to date anyone, or were you happy being singly.
daughter 440 M. C. : Oh, I, I've been with, you know, groups of people, single men, and those that are married,
and those that are widowed. I don't know, but it's... No, no I've never, I knew when
Marilyn was born that this was my life duty.
religion/service 444 And I've done it the best I knew how. And I've always been close to the church, I'm,
I'm, now like yesterday was Tuesday, this seems like it's a month from now, but, anyway,
yesterday was Tuesday, and I went to my circle, with the lady that lives here, and she has a
car. And I took an apron, a cute little pink apron that I used as chairman of the rummage
sales that we used to have, to make money, we had rummage sales. And I had used that
apron for 20 years, and it was, uh, nylon. And it had big pockets in it. And I...
end Tape 7. side A
Tape?
side B
religion/service 012 M. C. : [discussing the apron] ...woman that does a great deal of work for the church...
L. L. : giving the apron to her
M. C. : ...and helping others, and I was passing it on to her because I wanted to know that it went
to someone that could make good use of it. And I took that little apron and gave it to her.
It, it's, it's really wonderful when you stop to think. Now I, I, I always said to anyone that,
uh, if they asked me what church I belonged to, I told them where, or how long I'd
belonged to Mt. Baker. I would tell them almost 50 years. And while I was at the church,
I looked it up, and it's ready 52 years. You'd say, that's what guessing does for you,but
you get close enough, you get the idea anyway. I don't want, I don't really like to talk
about myself. I've told you much more than I've ever told anyone.
76